Gunleaders Blog

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/11/chris-fusaro/how-a-cop-deals-handles-a-routine-traffic-stop/

In TTAG lingo, our response might be:  Chris Fusaro is insane… but let’s not get carried away.  He’s offering perspective on traffic stops, a question routinely brought up by noobs & experienced people who carry firearms alike.  We have all too frequently heard the opening line “I support the 2nd Amendment, I’m a life long hunter, shooter, you name it….  BUT…”

Here is Chris’s version:  ”Before I became a law enforcement officer I had a concealed carry permit.”

This is meant to gain sympathy & empathy from the non-law enforcement reader.

There’s the ‘traffic stops are dangerous (to us)’ meme:

“For a cop, every traffic stop is a dangerous situation. While most traffic stops are routine encounters with law abiding citizens, they can also become deadly situations for all parties involved, with little or no warning at all.”

For a cop, driving is more dangerous , traffic stop danger is blown way out of proportion for political & PR games, and the traffic stop is way more dangerous to someone being stopped – particularly those of Chris’s mindset than any actual danger to law enforcement.  Most traffic stops are “gateway encounters” for revenue generation or fishing for bigger, jucier charges to bring, particularly if they’re drug related.

This is particularly enlightening -

“As they approach the occupant(s), the officer’s eyes should be on the driver‘s side mirror; watching the driver watch them approach. Their hand should be [instinctively] placed on the handle of their gun.

Some drivers view this as a threat or insult. Officers are trained to have their firearm at hand to limit the thought process of what they have to do if they’re confronted with a lethal threat. If the officer’s trainer is worth his or her salt, the officer learns to perform this hand placement so that the driver never knows it’s occurring.”

Where I come from that’s called “brandishing”.  In fact, thinking back into the half a dozen or so encounters of this sort I have had with the modern day revenuers, I’ve never observed any LEO doing this to me.  It’s not an “insult”, it’s a crime.  You can plead “training” and danger all you want, but reverse the situation Chris – Do you want your brothers & sisters in blue bringing lethal force to a traffic stop involving your MOM?  Your SISTER?  Your DAUGHTER?

[edit to add / clarify]  Our position here is not iron clad, or etched in stone.  There are certainly going to be some cases in which this level of preparation is prudent, but very, very few and it should not be the “default” posture.

Regardless, if you see an officer hand on their gun coming at you do you feel safe?  Do you feel threatened?  Context is important here, obviously if a cop is just “milling about smartly” and resting his hands while talking to someone or a group of people, probably no issue there.  On the other hand if the officer, deputy or other LEO is approaching you, eyes on you, hand on their gun and you have done no crime what is your thought pattern?

If you’re legally obliged or want to inform the police about your CCW permit, simply hand your permit to the police with your driver’s license and insurance certificate (where appropriate). It’s best to keep your permit next to your license to avoid an uncomfortable (for both of you) delay.

If the police officer asks you to surrender your weapon, do NOT immediately reach for it. In most cases, the officer will tell you how he or she would like you to transfer your gun. They will tell you to exit the vehicle, ask the location of the firearm and remove it themselves.

Chris makes a point that he is squarely in the “take the weapon from the citizen” camp.

Be aware: if you do disclose, many police officers, including myself, will ask to hold the gun for safe keeping during the stop…

This is good discussion for a criminal defense attorney knowledgeable in firearms law in your respective state.  Regardless of the local & state law and the custom, this IS INSANE.  This practice ensures additional risk of injury or death.  Every reputable source on safe gun handling makes the point that handling the gun unnecessarily is bad.  This is no exception.  This custom, practice or whatever term you want to give it to take a weapon from an otherwise law abiding citizen at a traffic stop – absent any articulable threat is irresponsible and stupid.  If there are passengers in the vehicle this danger is increased.

Here is possibly the most outlandish part:

Let’s say your weapon is seized at a traffic stop and during the seizure the officer takes your cocked and locked 1911 from your holster but is unfamiliar with it’s manual of operations or basic gun safety.  He/she negligently discharges a round into your infant daughter in the back seat, killing her.

The officer is generally immune from prosecution and civil liability in that ( intentionally inflammatory example ) homicide under the “qualified immunity” doctrine.  Although that example is extreme, there have been reports of exactly this happening.  A similar discharge by an officer happened in this case but it was his own gun that “just went off” (when he pulled the trigger), which led to tragic results.

On the driver’s side of the equation, it’s best to switch on your hazard lights as soon as you know you’re being pulled. Decelerate slowly and drive smoothly to a safe place to stop: someplace well-lit and removed from traffic. [Note: this is especially true for women drivers who are alone.] If this takes a while, it takes a while; your hazard lights indicate your willingness to stop.

A note on the hazard lights, particularly if you’re on a multi-lane highway.  If you need to cross more than one lane of traffic the hazards override your turn signals on some cars; meaning if you hit the turn signal lever after turning on the hazard flashers it does nothing.  Both front and rear lights flash, rather than one indicating your intended direction change.  People might know you have a problem, but have no idea what your “intention” is on changing lanes.  However, the important part of this advice above is telling.  Why do you need to be concerned about being in a well lit place, especially women drivers if you’re being pulled over by a police officer?   If they need to be worried about these concerns, they probably shouldn’t be turning a firearm over to anyone.

Changing this attitude is a difficult task but one that must be undertaken.  Start with a formal complaint about the officer endangering your safety and that of your passengers needlessly.  If you have a local paper, offer to write an op ed or letter to the editor about the officer’s reckless and dangerous conduct.  Start the discussion and keep the discussion going.  If you have a pro right to keep and bear arms group or groups local to you, ask them for help.  Lots of these groups have officers as members, on their boards, in their voting societies and they may be able to get the training updated to a more modern and respectful standard.  Respect is something you earn and when you treat everyone you encounter professionally as a felon or potential felon, you can expect to be treated in an equal and opposite disrespectful manner.

Yesterday’s federal register contained an interesting NICS check item called the Voluntary Appeal File or VAF.  At first, it seemed benign enough but then I realized that this thing is run and administered by the government…

Here’s a snippet:

Brief Abstract: Under 28 CFR,
§ 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions within 24 hours of the Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) being notified of the transaction’s proceed status. If a potential purchaser is delayed or denied a firearm then successfully appeals the decision, the NICS Section cannot retain a record of the overturned appeal or the supporting documentation. If the record cannot be updated, the purchaser continues to be delayed or denied, and if that individual appeals the decision, the documentation must be resubmitted for every subsequent purchase. As such, the Voluntary Appeal File (VAF) was mandated to be created and maintained by the NICS Section for the purpose of preventing future lengthy delays or erroneous denials of a firearm transfer. An individual wishing to request entry into the VAF may obtain a VAF brochure from the NICS Section, an FFL, or the NICS Section Web site: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/ nics.

…

So it goes like this.  The Government sets up NICS to make sure only certain people can have access to guns.  In the process of weeding out the people the government doesn’t want to have guns they ensnare some innocent citizens; delaying and in some cases denying access to the right to keep and bear arms unconstitutionally.   In this case they proclaim that they must destroy NICS records and subject the innocent citizens to this infringement repeatedly.  BUT, like  Sal Tessio be very wary of the one who “comes to you with the deal” is the one who sold you out & wants to take your lunch (among other things).

So aggrieved gun owners can opt in to this VAF to avoid delays and denials purchasing firearms.

This architecture is perfectly set up for abuse.  All they need to do is to drive more and more people on to the VAF list – it’s voluntary, but only to the extent that people use it to not be needlessly delayed or denied a firearms purchase.  If you think this is tin-foil hat territory, look at a very close analog

NFA transfers.

Here the government set up a manual ‘form’ system for transfers of NFA controlled firearms and assigned a few people in DC to process ALL NFA transfers.  There were people waiting literally years for a transfer, non-responsive, and anti-gun form reviewers.  It was comically bad.  With some lobbying & work NFA transfers were moved to West Virginia for processing and form processing times dropped dramatically.  However, transfers continued to increase, funding for NFA transfers wasn’t increased and the same thing happened all over again.  Long wait times, little or no idea what is happening with the transfers, etc.

NICS delays, denials and the voluntary appeals file may or may not be a problem right now but at some point in the future it will be.

h/t (and link) to the War on Guns:

Truth in Political Advertising

Grover’s wrong.

“Third, remember who votes for you and why. The modern conservative movement is made up of people who, on the issue that moves their vote, ask one thing from the central government: “Leave me alone.” ”

That’s no longer enough for gun owners and it hasn’t been for a long time.  We can no longer accept ‘being left alone’ or picking the candidate who will infringe our rights the least.  It’s about how many restrictions they’re going to REPEAL in exchange for our support.  

Do NOT settle for a candidate answer “I strongly support the Second Amendment“.   Be ready for this dismissal and immediately follow it up.

“Great, so you will help us repeal unsafe federal lands restrictions on self defense.  Give me your contact information so we can coordinate submitting this bill.  No, not your campaign staff, YOUR contact information.  You want MY vote and my vote comes at a non-negotiable cost.”  There are many possibilities here, but the key is to immediately try to buttonhole this into a commitment.

Politicians are master manipulators of the spoken and written word.  They practice their craft of not being tripped up by a potential voter, or ensnared into actually doing work by a constituent.  Be prepared, don’t trust any answer you get from a politician and stay on your message.

Do NOT let the conversation continue at the phrase “enforce existing [firearms] laws”.  This is a “NO GO” for gun owners and you need to make sure that the candidate or politician clearly understands the status quo means electoral DEFEAT.  It’s about repealing firearms restrictions and we cannot afford to give our votes to candidates who advocate using the weight of government force against us.  That is after all what “enforce existing laws” means.

Being left alone is a concept of days long gone by.  There is no more “left alone”.  From taxes on your land and house that localities will seize your property for not paying, to state level eminent domain condemnations and other incursions to the ever increasing encroachment into every aspect of our lives by the federal government.  You can’t even breathe in the United States and not be impacted by federal regulations.

What can you do in the United States of America anymore that isn’t regulated by law or regulation?

REPEAL needs to be the 2012 battle cry.